Sheep School - How Ashlea and Olivia Cross (AKA The Siblings of Sheep) learned their sheep skills

Can you learn sheep skills formally? In this episode the inspiring siblings of sheep share their learning journey. It started with their high school agricultural program at Tintern Grammar School in Melbourne and now continues with their studies at the University of New England in New South Wales. 
They share their sheep secrets, who has influenced and who has helped them to learn. 
Age is no barrier to learning to sheep well!

Find Olivia and Ashlea and their amazing Romneys via their facebook page: 
https://www.facebook.com/marbellaromneys-106859314317970/

Transcript

spk_0:   0:02
Hi. Welcome to the sheep show Podcast Dedicated toe. All things bovine. Thank you for joining me, eh? I'm Jill Noble from Holston Valley Farm and Sheep Stud on your host. This is your podcast to learn, Maur No Mohr and achieve more when it comes to shepherding. Come with me as we explore the amazing world of sheep and sheep farming together.

spk_1:   0:29
So we are here on this episode of the ship show podcast with the siblings of shape. Well, they're even more than siblings. Thes payer are twins Or here today with Olivia and Ashley Cross. Hello, Siblings of sheep. How are you? Thanks. Pleasure. Thank you. You're on the strip show Podcast. Now what I know about you, I'll just mention a few things. Eso you have that won numerous competitions in terms of sheep handling chic judging junior handling competitions A ll shows all across the eastern seaboard. Andi, who have just set up your own sheep start? Is that right?

spk_2:   1:15
No, we're in the process of starting up a stud. Obviously. Do the pandemic the moment we haven't been out of purchase actually registered in that thing. So the processes help me.

spk_1:   1:25
Congratulations. Congratulations on DH. That's really what I wanted it to. To talk about on this episode is how did you because you're both what? 19. Teo just turned 18. So you were both already setting yourselves up with sheeps done an 18 years old. Andi, you leave kind of in the city with urban friends? I suppose so. I really wanted to share with the listeners how people like you, young people in particular, who don't have a farming background. Correct me if I've got it wrong here. Don't have a farming background. A traditional farming background. But yet you're 18 and you know so much about she. Andi, you're in a position to set up your own sheep Start. So I'm really interested in how you have learned all of this. And it was the star. So maybe we could start with that. You know what? What got you started in sheep?

spk_2:   2:27
Well, pretty much. We were going through looking for high schools and back in 2010 and we went through a tour through school. We went to which was to intern in remedies. So very much suburbia are just in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne and we met Gavin and he was the farm manager. It in turn. Hey, still is on DH. Basically, we were on this tour and we fell in love with the school Gavin gave us are for people, looked for clovers at the time and you get over a four leaf clover way really fell in love with the school from like that Teo back in grade three. So we went to tin turn from your 7 to 12. Andi turned out a sheet programme Well, a farm programme, but it mainly focused on specialist on she on DH. They have Romney's at your long will breed of sheets. So that's kind of how we got started going through the programme. We ended up his farm Captain's unit 11 and 12. So that's kind of how the love of shapes of this started.

spk_1:   3:27
That's amazing. On the Gavin you're talking about is Gavin Wall, who will have featured in a couple of weeks on this ship shows well, so well. Teo, tell me your farm Captain. So? So at a very young age. What does being farm Captain main when you're in a farm programme? It's so

spk_2:   3:49
we had to to tio what we had for at the time s o It was us into other girls. And we managed a team of about 30 to 40 students at a time, eh? So we manage teaching them at lunch times because it wasn't particularly a subject in our school, it was more like you had to go down at lunch times and that sort of thing, eh? So we had, like, a club, you'd say, and so students could come down every lunchtime and we teach skills like how would handle shape? Judging in the judging in that sort of thing that run alongside, if you're in your seven, you'd have agriculture is an actress subject. But from here on, it was just a the club club kind of thing that you could go Teo So we would teach that. And then we would also work with Gavin Teo, choose what they were going to shows and that sort of thing. What rams would match up with what use? Preparing she, overseeing being like the bridge between teachers on then the students.

spk_1:   4:53
You must have some amazing storeys about kids that you joined this club on DH. It really help them settle in and help them sort of make friends at a very stressful time.

spk_2:   5:06
Almost people would think that, like at school, like most years, sevens are most people. You default student that something like Usually there's quite a clear divide. But our young farmers like team, we're all family. The community was great. There was no you could talk to anyone. And we made some really good friends who wished, like in younger levels who still talk to you today. So it was on DH most of the they'd start out very quiet and not pretty scared of animals, and after a few months they'd be quite competent and lack confidence in themselves. And that's the thing I'm most students use. It is like an escape from the classroom. Teo could be quite full on sometimes in the classroom, and just going down to the farm at lunchtime just took him under way from going just like going to classes and that sort of thing.

spk_1:   5:59
Absolutely. Yeah, I went. Teo went to a boarding school, a private boarding school, and I know it was very academically focused and way didn't have

spk_2:   6:07
a farm farm,

spk_1:   6:09
so but it was anything like music or DRAM. We actually had. Horse riding is a subject for a year, which was really good. But it was things like that that really helped mental well, being as a student, I think so. It's really good. So it sounds like it was a very enjoyable experience for for you. What made it challenging for you or even for the other students. What were some of the challenges that you faced?

spk_2:   6:34
Its a good like hands on learning experience in that sort of thing, like you get Teo bring shape into the world yet to see them grow in that sort of thing. But like there's also a tonne of challenges, it's unfortunately the industry that we're in, it's not all like it's on Chinese and right, so it's there is life and there is death way. We're able to, with our experience of captains, were able to see stuff that happened behind the scenes, like our school still had to ship lambs off to market still sold rants, and it's like something that the shooter's learn as they progress through the school like it's not like it's something that we would flaunt, like the truck would turn up on the weekend, and that was it. Like it was kind of like a secretive kind of thing that unless you were privy to the knowledge, it's not really something that was shown. But also the main problem is like just occupational health. And safety is really difficult to run in a school environment, working with large animals like they're probably anywhere from 80 to 101 120 kilos. So with the students that probably half that size, it's not the best environment to have students and animals working together on DH. We are taught like in our culture, Teo very beginning that to be a safe around animals, to be fact safe around the fences. Don't go doing anything. You wouldn't normally go on doing that sort of thing. But just like we were taught howto blade, you too quick shape for preparation and even that just us two, if that was such difficult because, like they didn't want us using like sharp shears, which is obvious. But they have to be sharp to be other like click the sheep. So it's It's such a hard for a programme to run in school environments and in fact, It's probably getting school programmes with agriculture, probably getting less and less because it's becoming so difficult, like chemicals and that sort of thing like, Yeah, it's just however, like the experiences the programme provides, like we get Teo, see all the hard work put like payoff. And that's everything You put so much effort into an animal and to see it to really well at an agricultural show, even just throughout like throughout the R. And to see that on the students as well is quite enjoy. It was quite enjoyable for us is captains to see that like happen and order of learning and knowledge that they got. And I suppose from going to those agricultural shows you really got to make lifelong like networking with people. And it was quite way still talk to people every day about who we've met agriculture shows. So I think it's enjoyable experience in that regard to

spk_1:   9:29
what sort of people do you meet when you're at a agricultural. So with the school,

spk_2:   9:34
every walk of life, I think I loved sitting down. Most of them are older, like farmers in that type of thing, but you could sit down with them for hours and just talk about Chief in that type of thing. So it was your loves talking to the older farmers in that type of thing on DH, I think probably the industry needs young people, and I think they like the farmers quite like sheep farmers. Probably, it shows appreciated that having the young kids to talk to in that doesn't come

spk_1:   10:06
out. I mean, I know from my point of view was always so good because you could always turn to anyone from tin turns. You know, we needed a handler and he didn't have

spk_0:   10:16
to do

spk_1:   10:16
exactly what what to do at the Royal Melbourne had actually a few from Elizabeth Murdoch on my team, and we did a little sort of prep session at the start, and they were teaching all of my other handlers What? It was amazing. So you mentioned that the agricultural programmes are becoming less common in schools. How do you feel about that?

spk_2:   10:41
I think we were lucky that way because it's like it's obviously a dying type of thing to happen in schools. Especially to that. I mean, our school was in the middle suburbia, so I suppose It's more a problem of schools that Aaron like urban areas. I know there's quite a few schools down in like the morning too peninsula like AMC. As you mentioned, I have got a lot of shape. They had, like four breeds on one a car. So it's it's and they're having to reduce down bitches of how the things they're working during animal programmes now with her. Like, I think there's licences in that type of thing. Like so committees toehold like toe just to look after sheep and chickens and not sort of. So it's quite a reality is who? Who for these programmes? Because it's becoming very, very hard from

spk_1:   11:34
Can you imagine? Can you imagine going through high school without it?

spk_2:   11:37
I e. I don't know. I don't think way were introduced to 10 turn and the father that we had. I don't know how we would have survived through school because, I mean, we had other options of schools who one of them had have been yard. No way could have been one major I don't think we'd be doing, and I don't know if we hadn't have found, so

spk_1:   11:59
let me just think for both of you. This experience has actually encouraged both of you to continue on in our culture and study that as well.

spk_2:   12:07
Yeah, we were government was like, I don't want to pressure you into doing it at all. Like you don't have to do it well, like Mary. Like it's something that we actually wanted to do. It's something that I enjoy. So I'm studying agribusiness and I'm standing rule science, and we're starting at the same university of New South Wales.

spk_1:   12:25
Distance learning is normal now for you.

spk_2:   12:28
Well, actually been studying. We studied online from start. So we actually decided late last year that we'd study online just so that we could start our start up and saw without get our farm up and running. We actually made that choice. Then what happens? Has it actually affected us whatsoever? In fact, most of the people that are like all the on campus students at the University of New England are now off campus anyway and are doing online. So they've got any programme like actually supportive because a lot of people find online learning very difficult. You seem like there's a lack of support, especially if it's not a great line usually, but they do an amazing job making sure Everyone,

spk_1:   13:13
I guess you guys better got a practical head start on a lot of a lot of students, potentially a CZ well, with experience you've had. So at the at the school programme, I'm interested in some of the some of the things we talked about here on the ship show podcast is secrets the secrets of breeding sheep farming shape. Can you perhaps both tell me one secret, but you've learned from the school programme that you'd like to share with all the listeners. Something of David Jam? A bit of a nugget.

spk_2:   13:41
I'll start because mine is the good one way, although it is the five piece, but it kind of does a for peace, so preparation prevents for performance, so particular field preparing shape. You don't want your shape to look particularly in Romney's along more shape. You know you should be looking a bit fluffy around the edges or do any you'd like dirty and that sort of thing and particularly us. The handlers, well, you want to look well presented with the tucked in ask pants, and that's the thing. Clean boots and that sort of thing. It's more. It's not just respecting yourself. But it was also respecting the judges well, to show that the judge that you actually care about you and your animals because you don't know who's going to be watching like it's not just the judge that's watching you. It's also all the people that are there employees or or even business, like really in business for your studies. Well, Thea the wise old shape, old variations, easels, eyes shape, Frieda once told actually, and I know that in the showroom it's like, you know, But yeah, if you want your animal to stand down on DH, particularly for our breed, we have party middle size to tolerate if you when you integrate, stand next to a small brains. So, for example, a door power Theo South Downs. There quite a smaller high grade. So if you want your shape to look bigger, stand by them in the past, so make sure you were just a normal well e that secret just to fluff your shape up before you're going to be o

spk_1:   15:29
secrets. Farias. Thank you so much for you. The sheep that you learned about its school and also the shit that you've chosen for your studies. The Romney breed tell us a little bit about I'm interested in just a few things with history of the Romneys on DH. Ahs a breed Because not everyone might be familiar. Particularly got actually the ship show podcast. A lot of our listeners are in the US on DH Germany and France, and amazing on DH. They may not have ever heard of the realm. So tell us a little bit about the history. What sort of sheep is the Romney?

spk_2:   16:05
The Romneys are a heritage. Breed it on their part of rare bit breed. They're not as popular in the U. S either. I think they're quite rare. A cz well, but they originated in England in the originated in the hills of England. I was can't in Sussex area on. They were brought out to Australia in the 18 hundreds. Eso there no heritage breeds and they're part of heritage breeds. Probably what appeal Teo them for asked was Obviously we've had five years worth of experience with them, so we've already got kind of a head start carcass. They are to be judged with carcass and, well, qualities. They have quite a strong wall. Eso It's about anywhere from about 32 micron to about 40 s, so it's quite a range within the breed but has used for carpets. So it's not something that you're going to be used for thinking. It's quite a strong wall. So you're going to use that the carpets and the drugs and that sort of thing on there's only like 1000 like total Grady news reading using it like Romney's in Australia. So for us, it would be to try and get the numbers of that. So from 20 flocks they have in Australia, there's only 1000 sheep Romney sheep in Australia, which is quite quite small for us way want to increase the quantity but also maintaining the quality that the Romneys have as well. So

spk_1:   17:27
what a great breed objective toe, Have your breeding programme. I love it. It's great. What about in the in the UK? How popular, either? Romney's

spk_2:   17:37
too sure. I don't think they probably their most popular New Zealand. They're like the marina instrument. So New Zealand, you go look well. You can't 2018 and you just look up in the hills and them mostly, probably most likely going to rob me. I don't know about the UK too much. I feel like their number numbers mattered to endure a bit, but they do very well on because I don't They have black feet on black noses, so they do very well on wet ground and that sort of thing. So e do well pretty much anywhere.

spk_1:   18:10
Tell us about that because that's something that I know in the ship show. We've talked about it. We're going to talk about this pigment idea. Onda concept of Blackfeet Black Noses tell May what So share with a listers. What does that suggest to remain? Or if someone is looking at that in the brain? What's the benefit of that

spk_2:   18:30
black black feet, particularly? Romney's have a great foot rot resistance, so if there are in the paddock, you're not going to see them Limping around Way had an experience with another pink nose. Think fate breed at school, which we eventually sold off because they were way too difficult. Teo, just because our grand a school was quite wet and you go there every day, and if they haven't been well managed or you haven't gotten on top of it. They just be limping for a good week or so just because they're not very resistant to the ground that they're standing on. Whereas the wrong news. They're very good on the ground. Hard, very hard on DH. We found that like if you do lose, sometimes you have a lamb. It's born with a pinkie brown nose, but they usually they usually will have a flat final war, but they it'll transition to stronger once I grow up. But where, ideally, looking for Blackfeet, Black noses on DH, very thick in the air so that they don't get skin cancer. That's other things.

spk_1:   19:33
Yeah, something's going to have a talk about a few other podcast the years on sheep on what? The years couldn't tell you. So a lot of these things that you're talking about here, particularly the Romneys, are about this. A breed standard which is incredibly put when you're judging sheep, and I know both of you judge both sheep so the carcass, but also judge wool as well. So I'm interested. Which do you prefer judging? Do you have a preference about judging the actual animal or judging the fleece.

spk_2:   20:04
It's kind of swings around houses to what we do well in as a competition like competition. Well, and then one can competition. We could be better. It may, but if you when you're judging, noble animal used to. But obviously remember to judge the carcass and its structure as well. Where's mate? You're just judging. You take the fleece away, and you're just judging the maid in the structure, so generally want to take away the wall. You can see the carcass better, and especially with long wars as well, like they're usually divide their growth half like, usually half in tow. They should divide it half into fleece and half into war happened to fleece and helping to carcass. Sorry, because otherwise you've got an unbalanced animal. So when you're judging, you've got to take that into account. But I'm probably it's because they're easier to visualise because you're not. They're not hiding anything behind the long, big police on DH. It's easier. We're vory much like visual lack loaners, so govern taught us to picture. Once you find something of that breed, you've really luck. It's a really good representation of that breed. Remember in your head and always compare when you're judging back to that animal shortfalls of quite easy to remember. And they're quite easily visualise in your head what you're feeling for in that type of

spk_1:   21:25
thing. So if you tell you if you have to choose, let's say you couldn't have Romney's anymore on your in your study operation, you had to choose a short warship. What short we'll see. Would you go in?

spk_2:   21:37
Oh, so this is absolutely the decision that we were trying to make it. I lost in 11 and 12 because we actually originally didn't. We weren't thinking around you. So I actually wanted South Downs, which I but I want. They're like, actually like modern meat, like South Downs. They are, eh, small stature. But they're incredible meet grades. And I wanted some way now topics because people like you just get south subjects. But you don't want to compromise the oh Romney's who like we might as well and we want him for So let's do that. Cos

spk_1:   22:21
that's great. That's really lovely on DH. How did you you learn, Tio Judge the fleece? What was the or some of the things that you had to experience or go through it in the school programme to judge fleas.

spk_2:   22:35
Well, pretty much straight away. Like the first show I went to India, junior judging. I won and I was like, 12. I don't remember how one, but we weren't pretty much straight away at school. Gavin has, like, a like a little box, and he shows you because obviously Marino Fleece is very different to a Romney fleece or even a Lincoln police. It's even stronger. So he has, ah, little box that has all the different wall type. So hey, collects like samples when he sees, like, good samples of police, Andi has them in his box. The box is getting pretty old now, but they still have pretty good black police example. So if you look at typically album news that we had a school were generally final, then find her. And from then what you see on a General Romney reader in Australia, once you looked at, if you compared the police, it was in the box on DH shape is that we'd have for judging. We do like fake judging competitions. It's well, really, you could line them up and we're looking for, like crimp evenness the lost Cecil like the colour you don't know. So the world breeds tend to. If they just left out in the rain, they tend to weather the wall so it goes for a yellow or cream. Nicholas you wanted is firstly frightened. White is possible. So when you look at a fleece, colour is an important factor as well. On DH, well, it's not something you can judge on the sheep, also the strength of it. So if you pick up a staple, which is like the section of war, you don't want Teo easily. Also, just on the shape is like the dense nous or softness of the fleet's like Dense is usually better because rain. And that's what I think on impact the fleece and what it would just Yeah, and you can get more police from

spk_1:   24:25
Excellent. That's great, Andi, if you're thinking now off the carcass event in a few things you look for in world and if you're if you're judging a guess, a short war, we wouldn't really be looking at the world at all.

spk_2:   24:39
You're in Australia, but your most things

spk_1:   24:44
do you look for when you look for a more of a carcass type shape or make shape

spk_2:   24:48
well, in both of them, you've got to make sure that they're structurally correct so that their teeth they're not overshot under shots that were fighting on departing their shoulders are even and not pronounced pronounced. Er, I've got a good shelter set. They've got a good set back legs. You don't want them turned in, turned out on DH Also there, Hawk So which is kind of like their ankle bone, so you don't want them sitting too close to the ground because they will just break their back. Legs will break down over time and they won't be able to go and get feed. They won't be out if they're around, they won't be out a mate and that sort of thing. So, you know, I'm actually correct. In terms of carcass, you're mostly looking at the rib section, so you want to look for visually like feel with your hands and you'll be able to feel for the muscle and fat around the ribs area. So we were a trick where you could base it off your hands. So the back of your hand was, like literally a fatty sheep or shave you and beyond feel the ribs. It'll whereas if you were going over your knuckle bones, it would be a sheep that obviously didn't carry much muscle in fellas. The others, and also you want to look for on there rear ends of the rump on the hind quarter. That's quite an important area to look for muscling qualities in that type of thing. So you meet on also the loin, which sits behind the end of the last short rib. So if you're judging shape, you're predominantly when you're looking for make cuts. They're working from the last short rib, which you can feel back to where the hips hips are pretty much, and that will give you your width and depth of hind quarter or so That's very confident.

spk_1:   26:29
It's amazing. T think that you're above 80 then you know all this stuff, you know that there are breeders are they're probably had sheep for 40 years. I might not know this sort of death, and inside of knowledge, it's It's quite amazing on that. It all came from literally learning about it in your spare time, at school, too.

spk_2:   26:51
Way obviously learned from Gavin, but a lot of it you have two d'oh into So just pens in an agricultural show are talking to people was a good way, But also there's chauffeur talk of this. This is another good tip, for there's usually photographers that photograph, like the champions of the winners of each class on Deacon, looked those up online and just see you can visualise what good shape also, what is not. Sometimes they have faulted them so you can pick it up.

spk_1:   27:21
It's sort of being a sheep stalker. E love it. But it's so true, though everything that you're saying around using your eyes to judge the sheep and using the feel in all those different senses, if you like on getting hands on. But but knowing or visualising what you want to see and then checking that almost having that as a comparison that's such a great great tip for S O thank you

spk_2:   27:50
usually engine you judging competitions I'll have like or in normal conditions. Sometimes, though, definitely like a clear stand out would be to in the middle that are quite difficult to tell the difference from and usually the clear four. So usually like if we walk up to a group of four shape weaken, usually tell straight away just by looking at their back and like make visualising that cuts what we can tell us what is the best? What is fourth place? So it's when you get into the competition. It's about like not getting your first impressions when you handle in the straightaway. It's getting the first impression before you even start and then figuring out what's the difference between them all and set in the wall part.

spk_1:   28:30
Amazing secrets. This's gold for the listeners. So you've mentioned, obviously, what an impact Gavin Gavin Wall has been in your learning. I'm interested, apart from the amazing Gavin. Who is it that you most admire in the sheep industry or in agriculture? Who else do you look to listen, to emulate or learn

spk_2:   29:04
from, I suppose, for me. Ever since our first Melbourne show, we met Ron Alice, who's a Cardinal Brady down into along, which is outside along in Victoria on DH. We were lucky enough to hold her twin lands at the time, so that kind of started off our relationship with her and we've worked with her ever since agricultural shows, and we've, luckily enough done work experience with her during her landing season and probably another family that probably made me want to get some things for the death of family. They breed. And they were very much always asking freshly night to hold this ship. And we were obviously wanted to get on DH. So they had lovely self fix and they were a great family who we could learn office Well, so

spk_0:   29:45
you know, so much like

spk_2:   29:46
in just Albert clip industry. But I follow a lady on YouTube. Could Sandy Brock on DCI's, a Canadian sheep radar, and she just not leave any stone unturned when it comes to showing her view is what's happening in her daily life and unfortunately, like YouTube, and that's something senses that sort of thing. But it's really important to show her viewers that it's life and death and that things can happen in that sort of thing. On DH, She's really good to learn off because she has sometimes unexpected things happen and she shows everything. So

spk_1:   30:21
yeah, I know I love her. I love Sandy Brock, too, and I've actually been listening to her podcast, the unpopular farmer. A cz Well, yes, it does with her husband, who's been actually travelling around Australia, New Zealand. Not now. He's left now, but fabulous. Fabulous. I'm very glad you mentioned something that's really very good. It's great to have people like this in your right, just sharing the full spectrum. It's not. It's not all the glamour. There are things that we have to deal with and challenges that we all have to face. And I think it's good to share those so much.

spk_2:   30:54
I think it's, I think it's important to in this industry, especially, I know it came under fire, like from like, veganism, that type of thing where they weren't showing, like the full kind of thing that what happens in agriculture, what happens in the sheep industry. So I think someone like standing who's showing her view was like everything that's happening on her farm. I think it should have shows the agriculture industry in that type of light, and it's good for

spk_1:   31:22
sure. I think we need more people like that to look at the particularly the care and the passion that you both have and that Sandy has. Well, it's just just wonderful talking about them. Some of these more tougher things. I'm interested in a prop, something tough, a tough lesson that you had to learn the hard way with sheep. So what have you had to learn the hard way?

spk_2:   31:44
You can never prepare for what's going to happen next. I think something can be going so well with sheep. You prepare something so perfectly for a show, and then, as you load it into the trailer, just starts limping because we've had that before. Where we've had our champion show. You battle odour and take her to a show and you start slipping it. It's just an injury, like it wouldn't be like there was nothing else wrong with her. And I think in shape, especially like something going so well. And then it just turns or something could be going. So it's just unexpected. So I think there's nothing you can quite competed for, and we industry Castillo we were with up on DH. It's probably the most horrific traffic thing that we've ever seen we had. We were down there in lambing season and you had two lambs coming out at once to the head of one land had already come out. But then four feet were trying to follow it. So, too, from the next lamb and then to from the and it was just stuck could not get it out. We tried so hard. And unfortunately, lambs passed away like the one that got stuck had been dead, probably for an hour or two. And, well, lucky not to lose the Welsh, Teo the vet and we got they were able to get the lambs out agenda, I think those triplets. So she had 1st 1 obviously passed away. And we're lucky to end up with two. But you just never know you, Khun Anything, Tio.

spk_1:   33:08
You're right. It is. You know, you talk about the Children, a tin turn, learning and buddies. It's a cradle to grave sort of experience that when when you're in agriculture, you used to get to realise. And then, of course, that makes you really appreciate the life cycle of the hole Life experience as well. So yeah, those things are really hospital for Children. I think they must be very hard.

spk_2:   33:32
Teo, at that time it was early in the morning. So I was just actually now governed that there's a degree of sheltering eyes. Yeah,

spk_1:   33:43
yeah, thinking, Perhaps then of other people who at any age, any stage of life who are wanting to take the steps that use you've taken and set up a stunned, particularly a sheep started a breathing programme. Well, I know for you. Obviously, things have slowed down a little bit in terms of your plans. But what advice would you have for others who might be starting or thinking of doing that?

spk_2:   34:10
I think just to start with research, we spent a really long time researching like before we settled on the Romneys. We were researching blacks, African Southdown greatness, Agnew's and we were looking at, like show results because shows on everything. But we're looking through breed associate a Zafar, especially. So I think a good starting point is to look at your breed association if they are a part of as bar on as Australian Ship Association and Teo, do you research through there and especially, I think another one is to find someone within the industry and sort of mentor have the measurement mentor. I think that's quite important. One s oh, We've kind of expanded our mental not been told this, but it kind of spoken to many people and still contact them whenever we need it.

spk_1:   34:58
I think we have a mentor in common Haven't way,

spk_2:   35:03
just like last year. So probably from it mutually at a chauffeur use about. We don't really talk that much, but rush last Sydney Rose and we come from a relationship kind of hit off. We've been talking,

spk_1:   35:19
Yes. So we're talking about Jason, who was my primary mentor, and I was a mentor to Libyan Ashley as well. And we will have Jason show podcast, hopefully in the flesh, to help everyone else as well. Because he is. See, he's something else, isn't it? When it comes to Teo? And if there was a perhaps a sheep novice, then So they're not quite at this sort of wanting Teo to set up a start and so on. But they're wanting to learn about you, particularly in a formal way. You talked about the research, and obviously you're starting to see the school. You're starting at uni. So what would you say to someone who's thinking? I don't have land among a position to buy sheep, but I don't want to learn Mohr.

spk_2:   36:00
Well, obviously you can do it through, like nursery education system, that sort of thing. So our system like you need to find out what works for you obviously were kind of bless that University office online courses. So you can even just do a diploma in agriculture or a certificate or that sort of thing. And free societies quite often have, like exposing that type of thing for education Education Day. So as has an education day, I don't know how often it runs, but we've, luckily enough, been to two of them. But there's also a small, elaborate societies through Will host days who so complete novices or all the way to experience breeders could go along and learn things. So I think that's quite helpful. And there's also obviously the agricultural shows quite helpful, too. If you wantto learn before you go and potentially get more formal training as well,

spk_1:   36:50
some really good ideas on. Of course, we can't forget someone like sounding as well, you know, so that you know the YouTubers and things like that. So which are always so

spk_2:   36:58
good, especially

spk_1:   37:01
when it's a daily dose that you get in. You know, it's just just quite amazing. Obviously, most people that I talk to you on the ship show podcast eat meat on. I know you eat mace. So I'm interested. What is your most favourite lamb dish that you could share with? The listeners are favoured.

spk_2:   37:26
I do love a good butterfly like lambs with, Like rosemary and garlic. That's quite nice. I like when Wen. Thanks. So we will use some of your worship the other night. Teo, have one shakes in a local cast. That was really good. Yeah, it's good. Just well, new. Thank

spk_1:   37:52
you. Thank you very much. Those two really nice ideas for listeners to think about how to cook their Loubna's well on. Are there any questions that I haven't asked that you would would liketo add so that anything else you'd like to share with our listeners that we haven't covered?

spk_2:   38:07
Probably like what? Howto like howto purchase like, Yeah, a bunch of sheep. Yeah, s o. Obviously, people make mistakes. And who would just go in like bison? Sleep off the internet for quite very cheap prices and usually they'll have health problems that come along with that or they're they're quite pit like they're falling into a pit full or attract a Z could say so. I think the number one thing is make sure you go and inspect it back to the sheep and see them in person for you by them. And if you're not sure about the quality of a shape, find someone that is like another breed or like a mental that can come with you and knows howto look. Att shape in the quality of them and that sort of thing. But number one, when you're buying shape, you want them to actually correct. So a Zai said earlier, when even we're judging them, we want them to actually correct. So you've got to make sure that they're able. Teo obviously eat, and obviously, if they're around, they're able to breed. That's very important for the wall Inmate will come after that, so it's not a maid to think straight away. You can obviously increase the quality of your flock by adding genetics in later. Changing a flock isn't going to come overnight, so it's going to take several generations of breeding to see the improvements in your fucking that sort of things, and there'll be a focus for us. Expose with small our gene pool here in Australia looking Teo increase. Keep the quality training in increase equality with a smaller gene pool because if we had access to New Zealand, that would be amazing because they have some great quality Ronis over there by Duccio the importance with disease that Zeeland opened their borders to. So we can't obviously get any Stephen imported. So yeah, it's difficult. It's not just a problem for Romney's breeds, like Lincoln's or Structures and that sort of thing. You have a tiny gene pool and very few breeders here in Australia eventually going toe decline because they won't have the genetic cool. So having access to genes from New Zealand and that sort of thing would be very helpful just to increase the quality number likely and increase the number of shape that we have in Australia.

spk_1:   40:22
Yeah, that whole bio security challenges definitely one that we all have to face with and deal with his well, where do you see your career in shape and in agriculture heading? What's what does the future hold for both of you?

spk_2:   40:36
So right now is studying where in our first year at the University of New England. And it in our model in yourself, Wales. I'm studying rule science, actually studying argue business. So quite different benches. So that means we can manage ASIO. So I'm focusing on the science is more broad. That's happened thing. So even though Dr Ferguson like cropping dairy meat like beef, cattle out type of thing s o, it could take me anywhere. I probably will focus on sheep on well, on that other thing just because that's where my passion is. But actually, it's more agribusiness. Yeah, I probably want to manage my own business first. Whether that's going in, managing a cheaper enterprises or just arming businesses in general, in Australia,

spk_1:   41:22
Well, that the sheep industry is definitely all the better for having you both in it for sure. Well, thank you so much for being on the chief show podcast and sharing all those amazing The journey and all those amazing tricks and tips and secrets that you have with our listeners are really appreciate you sharing those with us. Thank you very much for all of you.

spk_2:   41:43
Thank you for having us.

spk_0:   41:44
You've been listening to the sheep show podcast with Jill Noble from Holston Valley Farm. Please take a moment to share this episode via your podcast up email or via social media channels. Each share helps us reach listeners just like you, who could benefit from our content. Thanks so much for listening until next time. Sheep well?